Today I’m joined by my friend and fellow regular of our Diviners’ Nights across NYC, the mighty Sarah Lyons. Sarah is a writer, activist, occultist, and witch with one foot in popular politics and direct action, and another cloven heel in the dark wilds and haunted woods. She was the witch in residence for Broadly, where she had a weekly tarot-based web series, and her writing has appeared in Veneficia, Teen Vogue, Vice, Broadly, Slutist, Fusion, Dirge Magazine, and Dear Darkling. Most recently, Sarah has authored Revolutionary Witchcraft: A Guide to Magical Activism through Running Press. She is also one half of the hosts of the PopCvlt Podcast.
Al: Congratulations on your new book my friend! Would you share what motivated you to write it, who you feel it’s for, and what your hopes are for the book now it’s written?
Sarah: Thank you!
So there’s obviously been a huge resurgence in interest around witchcraft and other magical arts recently, and at the same time there’s been a big surge in political engagement, especially in the United States. People usually tie these two together around issues like feminism and women’s empowerment, and while I think there’s a lot to that, I also think it’s more #complicated. Maybe a bit of a tangent, but if The Witch is an archetype, a spirit or force outside of ourselves, then maybe it’s her using us, and not the other way around.
So when I sat down to write a book about witchcraft and activism, I didn’t want to do a book of spells or activities, although those are in there, I more wanted to give people new to either the tools and ideas that will help guide them on the rest of the journey.
A: That idea of what the spirit may want is an especially interesting and potentially fruitful one I think!
So without beating about the burning bush, what do you think divination has to offer activists?
S: Personally I find divination invaluable to my activism. Before engaging in a campaign or action of some sort, wouldn’t it be useful to know of potential pitfalls and problems beforehand? I think on the Left there’s a distrust of too much woo, which I get to an extent, but I also think it’s where the politically minded magical folks out there have to start making our case a little louder and more clearly. It hurts far less to engage with divination to gain insight and foresight, than it does not to.
A: I feel like one of the biggest problems for activists is burn-out, and my suspicion is that part of that case to be made by and for spell-slinging activists should probably include the importance of spiritual baths for replenishment and rejuvenation. It’s a noted element of vested interests’ and big capital’s tactics against organised people power - to simply keep repeating the same efforts until finally it’s not contested enough to be shutdown again. In the face of this, divination and magical action for cultivating and encouraging that stamina of body and heart to get back in the streets and cause trouble once again seems especially important. So I feel like even asking just “how can I support myself and my comrades to keep going?” is a particularly worthwhile one.
Do you think some forms of divination are more helpful than others?
S: I think it depends on the person and the situation. I personally don’t like pendulums or scrying all that much because I can’t always gauge when my ego is interfering and making me see what I want to see, rather than what I need to.
A: I totally agree on the pendulum front - unless it’s for a very particular spirit or operation, I tend to find those methods sometimes referred to as “computational” (cards, dice, and especially geomancy; anything definitively *there* in front of you) as far more useful. I think scrying has a lot of use in making and deepening spirit contact and communion, but again, it’s very unlikely it would be my go-to for answering concrete client questions. Depends what the question actually involves and how much we’re exploring it as well as “solving” it perhaps...
So, perhaps that leads neatly to my next question: how/when do you think it can be best to approach and engage with divination?
S: I think at first keep it simple with questions that can be concretely answered, and advice that can be easily followed. Don’t start off by asking “will I ever find love?” or “what direction should I take in life?” That’s a lot, even for tarot. If you are just starting out with a new method, try questions like “Is it in the best interest of my health if I do X?” or “If I go to this event, what type of people can I expect to run into?” If your life improves, or the answers are generally correct, then keep at it! If not, some deeper learning might have to be done, or the method switched up a bit.
A: I have grown to really enjoy the phrase “What to bear in mind about x” really increasingly helpful in the divination I do for myself and clients. It sounds a bit cumbersome, sure, but I’ve found it really opens up things without getting vague or diluting.
S: I agree! I often describe my role to clients as a “google map for life.” You don’t *have* to take my advice, and things might still be ok if you don’t, but you’ll probably get to your destination faster if you get off on this exit.
A: Ok, so considering divination can span all the way from cards to bird-song and everything in between, what are you favourite forms of divination?
S: For clients and friends I love tarot. The imagery and history of tarot help paint a beautiful picture, and literally illustrate what I’m talking about, even to someone who has never had a reading before. Being able to ground esoteric concepts and complex symbols in narrative is, to me, a lot of what being a good reader entails, and I think tarot has a lot to offer in this department. In my own personal practice I still use tarot, but more for reflection and gaining personal insight into problems. If I’m communicating with a spirit or doing ancestor work, I like to keep it a little more simple and stick to playing cards or coin tosses for “yes/no” questions.
A: So my emphasis here is often how about diviners can deepen their practice by learning other skills or engaging in aspects away from the reading table or augury hill. Having asked what magic has to offer activism, what do you think activism and radical political engagement have to teach magicians, witches, and diviners?
S: Politics and magic cannot be separated from each other, as both deal with power and how we understand and work with it. Even if you see your magic as “apolitical” you are still engaging with power, and that is a political act. We live in a world where reality has been shaped by the revolutionary actions of the past, where groups of people shifted reality and dreamed new worlds into being, for better or for worse. As a magical practitioner, I think it’s pretty foolish not to draw at least inspiration from that.
Beyond that, and I talk about this in my book, but it’s my belief that a good deal of our problems come from living in a disenchanted world, a place where all the magic and wonder has been sucked out of it, leaving behind only profit and cold materialism. If you are doing magic, you are fighting against this, even in a small, private way. I think so many people are getting into magic now because the world itself desperately needs people to re-enchant it, and if magic is your calling, I believe you’ve been conscripted into the fight whether you know it or not.
Sarah has a whole tour arranged to talk about her new book, but most immediately she’s going to be in Salem, MA on Saturday 11th January to talk Magical Activism 101 at The Cauldron Black. She is also hosting a night of Revolutionary Witchcraft in the form of a panel discussion on the political dimensions and possibilities of witchcraft as a practice coming up at Bluestockings in NYC on Friday 31st January.